Is Prometheus really full of new ideas?

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shambs

MemberOvomorphAug-22-2013 9:31 PM

First I want to clarify that this is not a hater post, in fact I consider myself a fan of this movie, but this time I want to pose a more critical perspective and objective, beyond my personal opinion. In my opinion this movie is full of winks to the franchise, just look at this: Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/xlarge_zps1b2ab183.jpg[/img] Alien [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien_125_zps751c1b8b.jpg[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/juggernaut_crashing_prometheus_zps0cf3a16c.jpg[/img] Alien [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien_344_zps434b8622.jpg[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/trilobite_zps90e8a9e6.png[/img] Alien [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien_353_zpscb7e3f9c.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien_354_zps128e4638.jpg[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/burnye_zps372be958.png[/img] Alien [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/1257430423_resized_zps34ded05a.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien_373_zps0c1f192f.jpg[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Engineer_fighting_Trilobite_zps857c7675.jpg[/img] Alien [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien_374_zps49b253a9.jpg[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/fifield_zpsba72df74.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/apcvsfifield_zpsc0e33a03.png[/img] Aliens [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Aliens-alien-about-to-be-run-over-by-Ripley-in-APC_zps38f09297.png[/img] Prometheus (Big chestburster) [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/deacon_alien_prometheus_born_zps840d478c.jpg[/img] Alien 3 (Big chestburster) [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/149350-dogalien_zps1080ebed.jpg[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/david_zpsbef73b93.jpg[/img] Alien Resurrection [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/alien-resurrection-basketball_zps58c0a92d.png[/img] Similarities to other films Prometheus (Alien Creationism) [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/PROMETHEUS_WETA_VFX_03_zps0f1427e9.jpg[/img] Mission to Mars (Alien Creationism) [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/MissionToMarsPrehistoric_zpsf6f74194.png[/img] Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/prometheusV_screencap22_zpse9431bd2.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/sand-storm2_zpsce8205f9.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/7_zps523868ff.jpg[/img] Mission to Mars [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Mars02_zps6e90c0a0.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Capture-2_zps68be9911.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/mission_to_mars_1_zps00f43b85.jpg[/img] A similar end, with the protagonist aboard an alien ship, on a trip to the home planet of the aliens. Prometheus [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/vlcsnap-2012-12-10-14h25m00s50_zps3015d76c.png[/img] Mission to Mars [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/end_zps03ca2378.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/end2_zpscd175006.png[/img] And there are other minor similarities with works like Planet of the Vampires 1965 and At the Mountains of Madness 1931, and the restoration of the old ideas of Star Beast. In conclusion Prometheus is a compilation of old ideas, interesting but old, and therefore the new mythology is overrated. Anyway I have great faith that the sequel could expand this science fiction universe beyond the xenomorphs, and with more new things.

Zager2525
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There are winks to alien and I suppose ridley is quite right to use them, after all alien is his baby. Myself all though I like the military aspect of Aliens, Cameron literally copies whole scenes from Alien and recreates them, He's also done this with titanic where he "borrows " scenes from a black and white film called " A night to remember " and well Avatar, He just copies Aliens . What fascinates me about Prometheus is Ridley's continuing thoughts on androidsreplicants and the possible time that this technology will begin to overtake us ( I do like Jude law's speech in the underated AI " that all humans hate us because were stronger,faster,smarter, and we will outlive them" To this day I'm still thinking about the mythology of this film and also about the so called "singularity" event that eventually eclipse humanity, some people say it's already here and has been for some time. But to be thinking of the themes or questions Ridley poses a year since the film was released has to be commendable

Lone
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You're absolutely right Shambs, Prometheus is filled with all of those nods, winks & more. It references many Science Fiction classics including 2001. I think Ridley thought, now things have come full circle & I'm back in the driving seat, so lets revisit, respect & pay homage to some ideas from the past. Moreover I think he views this as a second chance. Expansion as you said, is the key to moving the story forward, keeping certain elements, but enhancing them & introducing new concepts. I hope he succeeds!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Necronom 4
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Ridley himself stated that everything has already been done, so where do you go from there? I think it's more likely that he had a rough idea of where he wanted to go with Prometheus but he had trouble putting it all together in a way that would please the audience, so he took cues and inspiration from other sci fi films. X Files the movie had a black mutagen liquid, there's another one. When creating a story about humans that travel to the depths of space and encounter a deadly alien organism, there is only so much you can do, so everything seems like it's being copied from something else.

The poster was good though!

djamelameziane
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Well I wouldn't say everything has been done -just depends on how good you are at coming up with the details. Theres also a little greek story about a guy called prometheus that this all may have borrowed from we will have to wait to see how much. Borrow and steal hard to say which is the right word. :p

"It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

xeno_alpha_07
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There's more than just winks to the original franchise. The film is riddled with deleted and unused concepts and ideas from Alien ranging from Dan O bannon's original draft, Hill & Giler and Ridleys very own stuff. For example the pups in prometheus was originally conceived for Alien but they were to be called mice. [i] I wanted to have small flying objects, like sensors, which flew up and down the corridors. They would find a problem, stop by a computer bank and fix it like little handymen. I wanted to call them 'Mice'. At the beginning of the film they would be the only things that were alive on the ship. We'd have shot a long empty corridor so you'd hear them coming before you actually saw them. Then WHOOSH! It would pass by the camera, going through the corridor. I think FOX felt it was too much int he direction of SF, and we dropped it.[/i] [i]- Ridley Scott, Fantastic Films[/i]

jenskarlsson
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also , as has been mentioned in other places on this forum, a lot of the concepts of the overall story are similar to H.P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness." H.R. Giger is also a fan of Lovecraft's work and i believe some of his art (possibly including the original 'space jockey' design) was influenced by Lovecraft's work. I think it is because of all of the fantastic influences and the creativeness of Scott and his team that Alien and Prometheus are (in my opinion) two of the best and most interesting modern films ive seen. i certainly cant wait to see what comes next. The basic idea of the film Alien was more or less a rip off of tons of older sci-fi films but i think it surpasses all or at least most of its influences. It was brought to the next level by Ridley Scott and his crew (no small thanks to the amazing designs of Giger and others), and i believe the same can be said of Prometheus. Ive never seen anything like either of these films before or since.

Major Noob
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I totally agree with all the influences listed above, and don't personally have any problem with it. And there are more! Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick, the Thunderbirds, UFO, Anime, its all in there. Clever film makers weave all sorts of references and homages into their work and for me Prometheus is that much more stunning for the mastery with which these things were included. Going back to the original ideas of Star Beast does not suggest a deficit of creativity or imagination, unless that's what you're hoping to see. The film itself should handily put paid to any such thinking. Just look at it! What we got from RS and co. was real respect for the mythology, a lot of hard thinking was done and a lot of love was poured in to Prometheus.

Tetrarch42
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I think it's interesting how much H.P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness" influenced Prometheus. Broadly speaking, the plot and premise is identical in both stories. Guillermo Del Toro had ambitions to do a high budget R-rated film adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness but said it's very unlikely the project will ever be financed now because the story is too similar to Prometheus. A real shame, given that Del Toro's film would likely have been better.

shambs
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Yes, that movie could be great, and I wish that Guillermo del Toro make this project once and for all.

shambs
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[quote]a lot of hard thinking was done[/quote] I prefer the word tribute, after all he did not have to invent anything. But this director definitely has great taste in choosing or imagine scenarios and great skills to use oniric resources. [quote]There's more than just winks to the original franchise. The film is riddled with deleted and unused concepts and ideas from Alien ranging from Dan O bannon's original draft, Hill & Giler and Ridleys very own stuff. For example the pups in prometheus was originally conceived for Alien but they were to be called mice.[/quote] I agree and partly confirms my conclusion.

Regular Parrot
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The more I watch Promethues (which I think is superb)..the more it reminds me of Blade Runner. I remember Danny Boyle saying something like: "when you look back at a Director's Career, it as if they make the same film over and over again." That has always made me think of RS and the themes of fighting (inevitable) death, AI and the difference between synthetic and artifical life. Oh, by the way..The Singularity is coming and right flipping quick.

Today I have been dedicated to post on as many topics as possible until I pass out from drinking too many beers.

Tetrarch42
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I disagree with the contention that Prometheus and Blade Runner are of similar quality. They do share some central themes like the search for immortality and artificial intelligence (as you pointed out). But Blade Runner had a solid plot, solid enough that I could enjoy the film without pausing every five minutes to ponder poor writing. Prometheus plays out like it wasn't even edited, it was an exercise in contrivance, plot holes, and unbelievable characters. Why did they remove their helmets in an alien environment they've only studied for a few minutes? Why do Milburn and that biologist run away from an inanimate body but get close and personal with an alien cobra? How does a geologist get lost despite an extensive 3D map, radio communication and GPS? How does the Trilobite grow from a one foot creature to something far larger than an Engineer in a couple hours and with no food? Why does the black goo effect people in totally inconsistent ways?

Legendary Xenomorph
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They do share similarities but I find the plot something new to the franchise and made different things with it. Alien plot was taken from b-movies in the 50s or 60s but worked to make a great movie by changing some things with it. Prometheus gave us some new things like the black goo, the engineers, the spaceship containing paintings, an alien and the green crystal. Its a plot that has questions and mysteries that never been answered in the movie only it needed to be answered in a sequel which I enjoyed it and waiting for the sequel. I can only tell a movie with copy out idea by how its written such as avatar its writing really showed how it ripped off another movie idea or AVPR that movie showed how its written really badly by exactly copying a bad b movie with nothing new or anything to twist with.

Fleshvessel
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This thread is just silly. It's no shocker that the 'ancient aliens' idea is not brand new. Or that Giger's artwork may have drawn inspiration from guys like Lovecraft. Are we going to call Prometheus contrived because of its Biblical or Sumerian influence as well?! Or maybe because it winks at 2001? The fact is without inspiration, we have nothing. The great thinkers throughout history had their inspiration, and we have ours. If we start to crucify every movie that draws from other ideas, or theologies, we will be left with very little to watch. Just be happy it's one less remake of something from our childhood getting pissed on... It's just crazy to criticize a prequel because it's similar to the film that it's a prequel to!!!! Anyway, my question is: Does this thread contain any new ideas, or is it just a compilation of the same old criticisms i have read a thousand of? And you call Prometheus derivative!!

THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS

shambs
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Take it easy fanboy, its not a hater post, and if you can not see the point is only because you are blinded by your fanaticism, but its ok, I respect all the opinions, after all is a forum. But I must confess that I like a little more objectivity and maturity. Besides excessive passion does not add much to a discussion :p

Not_my_intention
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its not that its new ideas, because its not new ideas. its the new execution that makes it interesting ;)

Not_my_intention
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alien wasn't exactly a bundle of originality either, it was its execution that made the film so amazing.

**Al**
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O.o lot of images! thanks. To me is better that a lot of words, and yes Is easier take a lot of compositions, and scenes that have impacted in the past. Have the knowledge about what the consumer wants is not a sin, but.. I still think The director could have taken more time to make it, I felt and I feel that is like see an unfinished poorly edited movie, I was waiting a lot looot more. I think some scenes are creating a link between movies of the franchise and others are to honour a prior work; but several are just to sell, what is more appealing to the Science fiction fan's eyes, and general public.

The world will spin well past our last breath, but I will always care about you

Custodian
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Shambs, one of the REALLY BIG THINGS people tend to forget is the influence of the TV series STARGATE SG1. Most of what goes on in SG1 also goes on in Prometheus. Lindelof has seen it all before, by watching the telly. :) I was soooooooooooo disappointed when I finally worked out (on my own) that this film was a reboot masquerading as a prequel i.e. the who's that guy in the chair and why was he on LV426 -- that question NEVER got answered in Pro~. In fact, they went, "meh, never happened, it wasn't even the right planet" but then this is from the guy who rebooted Star Trek. Eh, alors. my thoughts on this have remained CONSTANT: 1) the original ELEPHANTINE spacetrucker juggernaut was GROWN from [url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/24891]UGM or Universal Giger Material[/url]. 2) the Prometheus juggernaut was a [url=http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/22238]BACK ENGINEER'd jobby[/url], based on the original. 3) REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT ... :)

2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...