What's all this BS about " dumb scientists and huge plot holes?"

Just to throw my hat into this particular crowd:

As one of the people on this forum who is old enough to have seen the original Alien when it first came out in '79 (yeah, I'm that old, lol) as well as all the sequels, I can also add a few things that some people who have never seen the original cut might not be aware of:

1. In Alien, any 'quarantine' went out the window the moment Ash opened the airlock and let Dallas, Lambert & Kane back into the ship w/the facehugger. Ripley makes a very big deal out of the need for "24 hours for de-contamination" in that scene, and Dallas also specifically states later that Kane will have to go into quarantine - to which Ripley replies "Yes and so will we." But they're not in quarantine yet, because they've all already been exposed...and Ripley does in fact confront Ash about this face-to-face in his lab. So it's a plot point that's addressed several times... of course, we don't actually find out why Ash did such a "stupid" thing until later, when we learn that he wanted the thing on board.  

2. There's no talk of weapons in the original theatrical release of Alien, other than the flame-unit (flamethrower) and the cattle-prod that Brett puts together. You never hear Dallas say "break out the weapons," nor do you ever see John Hurt with the pistol/gun in his hand when he's examining the egg in the derelict. Those bits were added into the 2003 re-release, along with a bunch of other little bits. 

Interestingly in the original script (the one that the Heavy Metal "Alien' comic adaptation was based on) there is a line where the crew is discussing ways to kill the alien and one of them says "shooting it won't help; It's self-regenerating. And the amount of acid in it now..." But that line was never in the movie.

3. As far as them just isolating the alien by closing off sections of the Nostromo...remember that they still had 10 months of cryosleep ahead of them before they would be back at earth, so that would mean they would all basically be asleep whilst this huge, nasty, murderous, completely unknown thing was lurking on the ship... probably not the smartest plan of action, given that they knew nothing about it's capabilities or whether or not it could find a way to break out of whatever trap they might set for it. 

Some of the things they did (like sending Brett off to retrieve Jonesy alone) were foolish, for sure; but a lot of the things that the supposedly highly trained, professional scientists did in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant really stretch credulity to the extreme.

@Tom

First and foremost; David looks like Walter = a face that indicates safety and trustworthiness. 

Walter is an android that was trusted by the crewmembers who spent a long time with him, so of course they're going to trust David as well. He's just an android (first impression)

Furthermore, David's explanation was short and concise, and he also said it was perfectly safe where they were, with a kind and soothing voice. We as an audience don't trust him, but the crewmembers initially do and I can't blame them considering that he saved their lives. 

Oh he absolutely says "break out the weapons"or something to that effect before leaving the Nostromo.

Neomorph Someone who is horse whispering a monster that just severed some lady's head is obviously not safe nor trustworthy. 

jollitt I'm not sure but I think Tom was referring to their initial meeting with David, so I referred to that specific moment. I wrote first impression and initially, not what happens afterwards. 

It was being implied that it was not dumb of Oram to look into the egg because David appeared to be so safe and trustworthy. Nothing further from the truth. Oram looked apprehensive while looking at David's experiments and nonetheless he follows him into a dark basement. The way characters behave is incoherent.

Indeed they should have had some of the crew quiz David more and have him come up with a explanation that would make them feel at ease.

@John.D

Good way to cover what some would consider plot holes/flaws, i think again this is a bit like AC as to what i said above, in that ideally it would have been better to had added some dialog from Ash about Kane to say he appears well i examined him, and Kane saying he feels fine.... As otherwise yes they would had been wise to keep him Qaurantined... but as you pointed out they could Qaurantine him in Cryo-sleep which they would all be doing and so Kane just wanted some break-fast before they all go into Cryo-sleep

You raised a point about Parker going after the Alien, but we have to remember at this point if my memory serves me correct none of the Crew suspected the small thing that burst out of Kane would now be a 7ft Monster.

@Raven, I think you are confusing the 80s / 90s movie going audience with the current movie going audience. The original AlienAliens worked well even with their flaws because of the audience and movies made in that era (I loved those movies) But you cannot have such dumb decisions being made by your film characters in this day and age and expect to get away with it. The viewers are to a large extent more sophisticated with the quality of cinema available now. Alien Covenant couldn't cut it with asking audience to take it seriously with some mind boggling plot holes and insane actions of the covenant crew.  

One thing that counts to me is how likable the character is in general. If a character is alright but do some small mistakes here and there then I don’t think that is a problem. With Prometheus I found most of the characters to be boring and when they do one mistake after another then I just dislike the characters so that would add to the “dumb scientist doing silly stuff”. Petting a space snake is for example one of the things that I dislike about the movie but if they could have done Fifield and Milburn into better characters then I wouldn’t have had as much of a problem with it. There is a deleted scene where they find a small space worm and it isn’t a problem so when they find the space cobra they have less of a reason to find it deadly. Sure, it doesn’t totally solve it but it makes it less dumb.

Yes Alien had some dumb stuff too but the characters were relatable and also it was the first of its kind. Remember that Alien has reached somewhat of a cult status so people might tend to ignore the problems in that movie. For example, you could expect Kane to be more careful before looking into the Egg or Dallas going alone in the bottom of the ship before he gets killed (don’t walk alone in deadly situations). It is not a movie without flaws but it works in general for me.

I love space suits, but it adds another layer of complexity. The characters are going to get infected, Suit or not. 

What's the last time a Star Trek character was beamed down in a space suit?! 

Send the Capt. and some red shirts, wearing nothing but some cloth and silk underwear, to the surface of a unknown planet??! No problem. lol.

Star Wars , Star Trek all get a free pass.

@Ingeniero

Whole-heartedly agreed on all counts. For us, the audience, hindsight is 20/20, but in reality people do all kinds of poorly coordinated and stupid things. The movies depict very believable human behaviors -- it's not like the characters know they're in a horror movie.

I'm sure most of us has done something pretty stupid at some point and survived on pure luck.

Just the other night, I was out for a walk and I saw some weird big beetle looking creature I'd never seen before. I stuck my face down real close to it, to stare at it for a while.

Soon I stood up and thought "I would not survive in an Alien movie..."

I skimmed through this thread and I completely agree with what I've seen. It seems like people expected the characters in AC to be able to break the 4th wall like Deadpool. 

Oram looking into the egg was still stupid though.

I know if has been said on this forum many times, but Fifield and Milburn were written as dumb characters. They were supposed to be idiots. They were that way in Lindelof's script re-writes and were even dumber in Spaith's script. They were there for a bit of light comedy, then to die horribly.

Yes, the actor doing Fifield's part was groaningly overacting, and there were a few cut lines and scenes in both scripts that explained things like them getting lost (they forgot the map reader) and petting the snake (the worm discovery scene). Those would have been nice to have, but it would not change the fact that they were supposed to be idiots who fumbled around.

The Prometheus expedition was classified and nearly all of the crew were hired at high pay, without knowing what the job was. They were not all supposed to be the best-of-the-best, and were clearly all disposable as far as Weyland was concerned.

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My only issue with the Alien Covenant characters was the two that wandered off alone on a dangerous planet for inexplicable reasons. I had far more problem with the band of idiots in Aliens than anyone in Prometheus or Covenant.

id agree to a certain extent about how stupid the 2 of them are. but tbh most humans in the same position would fall victim to stupidity. curiosity gets the better of milburn and yes he regretted his actions but if the hammerpede turned out not to be aggressive then hed go down in history. I think fifield was a decent character for the humour factor. but I feel he felt a bit over whelmed and useless at the end. no one knew what the mission was and im sure most very much doubted shaw and Holloway were going to be proven right. when they r proven right and the realisation hits home that wer not alone in the universe fifield gives up. hes no longer needed really as theres bigger interests than him n his rocks. I don't see him as that stupid as he is the one telling milburn to leave the hammerpede alone and spent the night trying to avoid anything and everything none human